Police suspect no foul play in Downley stab death (From Bucks Free Press)

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Police suspect no foul play in Downley stab death

1:56pm Wednesday 19th November 2008

comment Comments (52) Have your say »

POLICE believe no-one else was involved in the death of a man found with stab wounds to his throat in Downley, High Wycombe.

The policeman leading the investigation this afternoon said the evidence to date does not show foul play.

The body has been identified but police will not release the name until his overseas mother has been informed (for previous stories see links, right)

The man, who is black and in his thirties, was found in the driveway of a property in Telford Way by a homeowner at 8am on Saturday.

Det Ch Insp Mick Saunders, investigating the death, said: “Whilst I am keeping an open mind about the circumstances of his death, the evidence that we have to date does not lead me to believe that anyone else was involved.

“The man’s father, sister, other family members and close friends are being kept fully updated with the progress of the investigation.

“I would appeal again to anyone with information about the death, or who may have witnessed events leading up to his death to come forward.”

A force statement added: “In accordance with the wishes of the man’s family, Thames Valley Police are not releasing any details of the deceased’s identity until his mother, who now resides overseas, has been informed.”

Anyone with information can call 0845 8 505 505, quoting URN 653 of 15/11 or Crimestoppers anonymously on 0800 555 111.

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boups1984@hotmail.com, High Wycombe says...
3:01pm Wed 19 Nov 08

Disgusting! Absolutely disgusting! What the hell are the police meant to be doing! This makes me sick and now I have even less faith in the police force!

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fergie31, says...
3:46pm Wed 19 Nov 08

Clearly nothing again by the looks of things again.

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Road runner, downley says...
4:04pm Wed 19 Nov 08

Surely that can't be right...

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Slacker, Flackwell says...
4:20pm Wed 19 Nov 08

boups1984@hotmail.co
m wrote:
Disgusting! Absolutely disgusting! What the hell are the police meant to be doing! This makes me sick and now I have even less faith in the police force!

Why is it disgusting? Does it make a better reading if it is a murder?

Clearly the only other option is self inflicted injuries.

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shelltoad, high wycombe says...
4:46pm Wed 19 Nov 08

No it doesn't make it better reading if it is a murder, but for the family and friends of this person, its also hard to believe that he would even think about doing it to himself, especially somewhere random like where is body was found when he lives nowhere near there !! All very strange.

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Blueberry, S Bucks says...
4:49pm Wed 19 Nov 08

Boups said "Disgusting! Absolutely disgusting! What the hell are the police meant to be doing! This makes me sick and now I have even less faith in the police force!"

If the police believe no one else was involved, in what way have you lost faith in them - what else could and should they be doing?

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Slacker, Flackwell says...
4:52pm Wed 19 Nov 08

In any suicide it is hard for the family to to accept that the person caused their own death People harm themselves all the time. This is not unusual and it is certainly not unusual for him to be found somewhere random in a persons front garden.
If there was self harm involved then clearly there are mental health issues here and he could have wandered off not knowing where he was.

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fergie31, says...
5:05pm Wed 19 Nov 08

Its not suicide as when he was found surely the knife would have been near with him as the wounds are in the neck so what did he do run somewhere and dump it, come on guys this is not a joke a young man died here. Also please note my freind never had mental health problems. RIP *****. X

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Mrs A, Bucks, Downley says...
5:14pm Wed 19 Nov 08

There is definitely something suspicious about this...I wonder if the police are trying to play down the fact that knife crime is hitting near enough every town in England now? Worrying times...I live about half a mile away and never thought it would happen in a place like Downley. My thoughts are with this young mans friends and family - a terrible tragedy.

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Slacker, Flackwell says...
5:18pm Wed 19 Nov 08

Well I am sorry for the loss of your friend fergie31 but sometimes we do not know fully what our friends and family members are really like until something happens. People can be normal one day and just flip the next, I have seen it happen.

With respect, you are friend of the deceased and you do not have access to the evidence the police have found. The police are saying the evidence suggests no other party was involved therefore he must have done it himself, I cannot see there be any other explanation.

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buddie, DOWNLEY says...
5:26pm Wed 19 Nov 08

There must surely be an inquest? The coroner will have to make a full report. This is far from over. If anyone knows anything at all they can remain anonymous if they phone crime stoppers??

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Slacker, Flackwell says...
5:33pm Wed 19 Nov 08

Yes of course, if anyone knows anything about what happened even if it is heresay from a 3rd party then they should report it to crimestoppers or call their local station.

It is definitely far from over. There will be an inquest which will likely open this week or next week and probably be adjourned for many months.

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erm, ermsville says...
5:36pm Wed 19 Nov 08

I just do not believe for one second that TVP would play down a murder and list it as a "self inflicted" just to reassure the rest of us that knife crime doesn't exist in the Wycombe area.

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Slacker, Flackwell says...
6:01pm Wed 19 Nov 08

Well they haven't said it is self inflicted. They have said they have no evidence to suggest someone else is involved.
I don't think they would say that unless they were sure otherwise it would be a big embarrassment for them.

It was me who suggested it was self inflicted due to them saying effectively at the moment they are not looking for anyone else. Sorry if I caused confusion with my comments.

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erm, ermsville says...
6:08pm Wed 19 Nov 08

no slacker, it wasn't what you said, I was very cautious with the use of the term because I don't like implying it was intentional, I was using self inflicted as it can also cover the possibility of accidental injury to oneself.

But whatever happened, it is certainly a very strange case and must be terrible for the family to not know for sure what happened

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Slacker, Flackwell says...
6:16pm Wed 19 Nov 08

Well perhaps the police do know what happened but they are not saying. Especially in light of them not wanting to publically release a name yet due to his mother not yet knowing.

But everyone is right, it is all very strange but I am sure there will be answers soon enough.

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Road runner, downley says...
7:22pm Wed 19 Nov 08

I really hope you are right, the police can't just leave it at that. This just doesn't add up, and hopefully the more people push, the more they will say.

It must be just awful for the friends and family, I hope they can fine some peace, somehow.

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buddie, DOWNLEY says...
7:40pm Wed 19 Nov 08

They'll not be able to find any peace at all yet with so many unanswered questions. Maybe the police are saying these things to lull any 'killers' into a false sense of security. Who know how things work these days.

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Smudger40, High Wycombe says...
11:29pm Wed 19 Nov 08

I passed the house on 15/11 where this poor gentlemans body was found at around 7am and saw a black gentleman stood by a car on the driveway. As I was out for a run I didn't really take any notice as I see many people about but I'm now wondering whether this person was the unfortunate deceased. He wasn't acting suspiciously in any way - just stood next to the car and looked at me as I ran by. My sighting was literally just a couple of seconds as I glanced across to notice his wherabouts.
My point being here is that the body was found at around 8am and my potential sighting was an hour earlier. Doesn't really add up if this was a murder.
We'll probably never know what he was doing up there and if (a big IF I know) this was the same person then why was he hanging around on someone elses driveway in the dark ?

I do a lot of running around the Downley area and my natural concern is that if this was a random murder then it could easily have been myself that was targeted. The sooner the Police can confirm what actually happened then the better it is for everyone - especially his poor family who have my deepest sympathies.

I phoned Crimestoppers to report the above but they've never bothered to phone me back to question me further.

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wycombeborn, high wycombe says...
3:51am Thu 20 Nov 08

what a joke. the police have let the black community down once again.there is no way on earth he done that to himself. i would like to know the explination the police have for all the injuries he has. no way could u do that to yourself and there not be pools of blood and no knife.WHERE IS THE KNIFE? ANY BLACK KILLINGS THAT HAPPEN IN WYCOMBE R BRUSHED UNDER THE CARPET AS IF WE MEAN NOTHING.A WHITE BOY GETS STABBED OUTSIDE A CLUB AND ITS MAJOR NEWS TV COVERAGE THE LOT. BUT WHEN IT COMES TO BLACK KIDS NOTHING.
WHERE IS THE JUSTICE WE ARE MENT TO BE LIVING GREAT BRITAIN, PLEASE TELL ME WATS SO GREAT ABOUT IT.

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racheals, high wycombe says...
4:25am Thu 20 Nov 08

wycombeborn wrote:
what a joke. the police have let the black community down once again.there is no way on earth he done that to himself. i would like to know the explination the police have for all the injuries he has. no way could u do that to yourself and there not be pools of blood and no knife.WHERE IS THE KNIFE? ANY BLACK KILLINGS THAT HAPPEN IN WYCOMBE R BRUSHED UNDER THE CARPET AS IF WE MEAN NOTHING.A WHITE BOY GETS STABBED OUTSIDE A CLUB AND ITS MAJOR NEWS TV COVERAGE THE LOT. BUT WHEN IT COMES TO BLACK KIDS NOTHING. WHERE IS THE JUSTICE WE ARE MENT TO BE LIVING GREAT BRITAIN, PLEASE TELL ME WATS SO GREAT ABOUT IT.

this is nothing to do with being black or white and stupid comments like that from yaself only cause problems for everyone and certainly doesnt help the family of the deceased. whatever the circumstances and whatever the colour of someones skin theres a family that have lost a loved one !!!

the police arent helping the situation by not releasing enough information and theres 2 main questions that need answering

1/ IF this was a murder then why arent the police actively searching for the murderer and why didnt they search the area

2/ IF there was no foul play, what the hell was he doing on a strangers driveway in the early hrs carrying a knife ?

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buddie, DOWNLEY says...
8:18am Thu 20 Nov 08

The knoife was found. It was with the body and belonged to the guy himself. The police need to say more than they are to avoid all of the guessing games and red hot grapevines.

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Tharus Bond, Flackwell Heath says...
8:21am Thu 20 Nov 08

If they are keeping details back then they must have a reason. Also we the public will be informed by the police of any developments in due course, if it doesn't damage the case they are building.
Also We as a public don't need to know the steps that the police are doing as much as the immediate family.

Also the press don't help the situation. your comments highlight in some respect some of the reasons why the police seem to be portrayed in negative light these days! We **** them if they do! and **** them if they don't!

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Elmo, High Wycombe says...
8:43am Thu 20 Nov 08

Well.

I don't believe I have enough information to form any kind of a valid opinion, let alone one to get worked up about.

But then, I don't have an agenda.

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buddie, DOWNLEY says...
8:59am Thu 20 Nov 08

I think it's only natural that people want to know whats going on in there own villiage, especially on their doorsteps, until some kind of conclusion is drawn it leaves you with significant fright. The police have a duty to reassure the public that they are in control of the situation which they are not doing, their reports are very vague, this will always leave plenty of room for speculation. MAYBE THAT IS THEIR AGENDA. God bless the family who's hearts are at the centre of all this.

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Stewmeister, High Wycombe says...
9:10am Thu 20 Nov 08

I can't believe the rubbish I'm reading from some of the readers on this site!!

1) Fergie31 - my condolences, but do you seriously think the police would have suspected no other person's involvement, if the knife had not been located on or near the deceased?

2) Wycombeborn - playing the race card in a case like this is truely pathetic.

3) Mrs A - credit the police with enough integrity to accurately report crimes rather than misrepresenting facts to avoid scaring the public.

God give me strength!!

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kala1, luton says...
9:46am Thu 20 Nov 08

stewmeister how dare you have the absolute rudeness to come on here and make such comments to those who are greiving right now. every night i have to hold my sister whilst she cries and cries and cries it was one of her best friends. Once again trying to make sense of this whole situation and until the full story is confirmed speculation will continue, but for those who knew him will know that he would not of done this to himself and they do no need people like yourself coming on here and passing such loose comments. People are hurting and you need to remember that next time you want to make such bold comments. And like you said in your post at the end "God give me strength" yes i hope god does because clearly you havent been given a heart.
Anyway im not even going to continue with you as there are bigger things to think about.
God bless all those who knew him and hold on to the fact that the truth will come and justice will be done.
take care all.

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Stewmeister, High Wycombe says...
10:06am Thu 20 Nov 08

My comments were in no way undermining the tradegy of this young man's death or its circumstances.

Unfortunately we've all grieved at some point in our lives, but to blatantly blame the police or race at times like this gets us nowhere at a time like this.

That said, I extend my genuine apologies to yourself or anyone else knowing the deceased if my comments have caused offense in any way.

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Little Miss, High Wycombe says...
10:23am Thu 20 Nov 08

My thoughts are with the deceased's family and friends.

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SDJones, Hazlemere says...
11:12am Thu 20 Nov 08

the police may of found a suicide note on this man it may mention certain things and the police cannot divulge any more details at the moment, lets just see what happens ok people!

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bfp, downley says...
2:01pm Thu 20 Nov 08

i was honestly debating whether or not to come onto this and leave a comment. i've read about this story continuously over the last few days, and read all of the comments which have been displayed on here.
I've read the arguments about where telford way is, where the incident took place, what roads fall under downley. I've read the 'theories' people have thought of, or insinuated. It's been insinuated there was no blood....were you there? Did you see? It's also been mentioned about the searching of the area. I don't know how far the police searched and on what scale, but i sure as hell no they weren't twiddling their thumbs all day in my front and back garden or in others and in bins!
Well i know where i live, i know what i saw and i know what we've spoken to the police about. Whatever the circumstances, no-body deserves this, neither the person themselves (no matter what the situation), the friends, the family, the homeowner, the neighbours. This is obviously an incident which somehow or another has had some sort of effect on a lot of people. No-body will ever be able to take away these thoughts, images, and the what if's away from the family and friends. Surely they should be informed firstly and mostly in regards to developments in the incident.
The fact that people have recognised that this has taken place says something. With the flowers that have been left it is a moving tribute to this young man. The loss of this mans life has left an empty void understandably in peoples lives, whether they live here or abroad.

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carrotcake, Downley says...
2:15pm Thu 20 Nov 08

I'm not sure what amazes me the most...the fact that people honestly believe that the police brush the killings of black people under the carpet or all these "so called friends" that are now passing judgement yet not one seems to know really what this guy was doing in Downley on the morning of his death!!!...some mates! Also has it occurred to anyone that perhaps the police are being tactical??? if they say they dont suspect foul play they are bound to get a reaction from people who know the victim resulting eventually in people rebelling an speaking up (I've already seen examples of that on here).TVP are no doubt scouring comments on sites like these as well as fb etc and eventually something will come to light. I have to say I think it is a little inapropriate to be posting comments that could be seen as evidence (buddie and smudger!!!)any info should be passed to the police as it could be relevant. I would urge wycombeborn to rethink their comments as not only are they untrue in every respect but also not very constructive or much comfort to the family and "FRIENDS" of the victim. stephen Lawrence, Damilola Taylor, and many more were high profile cases with huge public support and funding so you might want to look under whatever carpet your talking about because from where I'm sat it seems it a magical one!!! As for Stewmeister, you should not feel the need to apologise for anything as your comments were in no way offensive, they were just your opinion no more no less.

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Smudger40, High Wycombe says...
2:30pm Thu 20 Nov 08

FAO carrotcake - if you had read my posting properly then you'd see I did contact Crimestoppers with all the info I had. This was over 3 days ago but the police haven't contacted me since to question me further. This is not a slur on the police force in any way as what I told them could be in their view totally irrelevant. I'm merely re-iterating that I did contact the police and anything I have posted on here in my view is not inapropriate or indeed giving vital evidence away!

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buddie, DOWNLEY says...
3:00pm Thu 20 Nov 08

FAO CARROTFACE- Any comment that i have made that involves details about the incident have come direct from the police who are liasing with someone very close. Are we wrong to want answers. Just shut up and get real.

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carrotcake, Downley says...
3:33pm Thu 20 Nov 08

buddie wrote:
FAO CARROTFACE- Any comment that i have made that involves details about the incident have come direct from the police who are liasing with someone very close. Are we wrong to want answers. Just shut up and get real.

LOL...So basically if my comments and opinions dont tally with yours then "shut up and get real"!!! how very constructive of you! you are not wrong to want answers, we all do as residents of Downley but ar the same time its wrong of people to go around summising that the police ignore the killings of black people especially when there is no evidence to substantiate it so why am I wrong to point that out? My comments were more directed at smudger anyway...forget crimestoppers, it your duty as a decent citizen to get your backside down the local police satation and insist someone listens, especially with the info you have. but buddie to be honest any info you have from the police surely at the moment you should be keeping to yourself, afterall if the police wanted that info published they would have released it and they clearly have their reasons for not doing so...yet!!! there are too many people on here with HUGE chips on their shoulders and its a shame as we are all singing from the same song sheet and alot of us live in Downley so shouldnt we be pulling together a bit more rather than scoring points on here!!!

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Smudger40, High Wycombe says...
3:40pm Thu 20 Nov 08

FAO Carrotcake - the crimestoppers number was listed on this web site in one of the orginal news stories regarding this. The policeman leading the case urged people to come forward and gave the number of crimestoppers to ring which I did.
How does that not make me a decent citizen ?
As for scoring points, it's you who started the hole picking so maybe you should have aimed that at yourself!

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carrotcake, Downley says...
3:52pm Thu 20 Nov 08

Smudger, its not picking at all, its all relevant. Out of all these posts it turns out that nearly half the people seem to have known this guy, yet not one has posted what he was doing in downley that morning yet they quick enough to brand the police as racist and incompetent!!! you said yourself that it could have so easily have been you that morning, when i read that it made me shudder as you right it could have been (providing this is a random attack), it hits home to how close knife crime is and the effects it has. I was wrong to insinuate you a bad citizen as I dont know you therefore have no right to make that assumption, for that I AM SORRY.

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buddie, DOWNLEY says...
3:57pm Thu 20 Nov 08

I have made my comments in an effort to nip in the bud any hearsay. You are probably right that i shouldn't have but it's painfull reading some of the crap people are saying and just too tempting to put them right. When i say 'SHUT UP AND GET REAL' i mean just that. People want to know the truth, people will gossip, people will be mis-informed, people will slag the police of, people will bring race into it, thats just the way it is. THAT REALITY.

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carrotcake, Downley says...
4:02pm Thu 20 Nov 08

buddie wrote:
I have made my comments in an effort to nip in the bud any hearsay. You are probably right that i shouldn't have but it's painfull reading some of the crap people are saying and just too tempting to put them right. When i say 'SHUT UP AND GET REAL' i mean just that. People want to know the truth, people will gossip, people will be mis-informed, people will slag the police of, people will bring race into it, thats just the way it is. THAT REALITY.

well buddie, thats cool, it good you have got it all off your chest,happy for you.. lets just hope you have not jeopordised the police investigation to severley!!! lets face it you never really know who is reading these posts and if the police or the BFP wanted that info divulged they would have done so. nice one!!!

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buddie, DOWNLEY says...
4:16pm Thu 20 Nov 08

The people who matter know these thngs already, including the police of course. If they didnt want any of the details divulged they would not say anything to anyone at all, only the next of kin. Lets just pray that the police manage to get to the bottom of it so that the family can have a shrap of peace.

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carrotcake, Downley says...
4:19pm Thu 20 Nov 08

here here...at least we agree on that!

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buddie, DOWNLEY says...
4:20pm Thu 20 Nov 08

P.S. i don't think anyone is trying to score points, i think they are feeling rather protective of those closest to this and trying to steer things back to the truth rather than rubbish.

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carrotcake, Downley says...
4:27pm Thu 20 Nov 08

Perhaps... but like you say people will make assumptions and gossip, its huan nature, we all know who the victim was and we all know the family but we have to just stay strong and try not to cause a divide. at the moment it sort of seems a them against us attitude and it doesn't help.

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buddie, DOWNLEY says...
5:10pm Thu 20 Nov 08

You are absolutely right. May God bless and keep you all safe xx

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Slacker, Flackwell says...
10:02pm Thu 20 Nov 08

Hi Carrotcake, you say you all know who the victim was - I assume you are talking about the local people of Downley.
Does that mean the man was local to Downley? Its just that the police have not said so in reports.

I am not asking for his identity, only whether he was a known local or whether he was out of town.
cheers.

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carrotcake, Downley says...
10:37pm Thu 20 Nov 08

He was not local to Downley no, he lived the other side of Wycombe

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Slacker, Flackwell says...
11:46pm Thu 20 Nov 08

Thanks Carrotcake.

I find it interesting that the local people seemed to have been given information - identity of the person, where he lived, the knife at the scene, etc., yet the police have not given this information to the press.
I wonder why that is?

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Little Miss, High Wycombe says...
10:19am Fri 21 Nov 08

Who knows Slacker. Perhaps the police haven't actually given this information to the people of Downley, you know how rumours and speculation spread like wildfire. The reports I have seen either in here or on the TVP website state that close friends and family are being kept informed with the status of this investigation, not that every man and his dog who live nearby are.

When news of this first broke I heard all sorts of random rumours, I don't live far from where this happened and naturally people were in a state of shock. However speculation is just that.

I do find it hard to get my head around the possibility of a person taking themselves to a random persons driveway, and taking their life in such a gruesome way, which is kind of what this article suggests to me (although it doesn't categorically state no one else is suspected). It doesn't seem to add up. But whatever the reasoning right or wrong, it's a case of waiting until we hear further.

I hope that the police get to the bottom of this tragic death, and if there is justice to be done, I hope that it's done and quickly for the sake of this man, his family and friends.

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Index, H/Wycombe says...
1:59pm Fri 21 Nov 08

I think that people should just stay quiet until there is more evidence. Me & my other half have heard so many different stories since this all began- we were even told it was one of our very close friends - which it wasn't! You can only imagine the sick feeling we experienced when we couldn't find out for sure until we spoke to the person and found he was still with us! Classic case of wycombe people loving a bit of gore to gossip about - even if their facts aren't right. Just so happens I also knew the person and I feel disrespectfull to even comment on this when I have no idea what the hell happened! Infact I don't think anyone does. The police will get to the bottom of it - and if anyone thinks they may know about foul play - then if you don't speak up then you'll have to live with the guilt for the rest of your life - And if no-one knows then keep your opinions to yourself - all your doing is causing further pain to the family & close friends of this lovely person who was once with us!

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xcrazycx, high wycombe says...
6:47pm Fri 21 Nov 08

true... when my brother was found dead near the jolly bodger the police never released to the press that they were treating it as a murder investigation...the press always said that it was just unexplained...someti
mes the press only print what they know...on the other hand,,the police force nowaday is full of corruption...its been proven im not saying all police are bad but some are! i know through experiance. clearly there were more people involved i mean come on now the man isnt guna stab himself in the throat a number of times...everyones heard stories but no one will ever no the exact truth..i feel for the family..its hard

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clarry, high wycombe says...
11:45pm Fri 21 Nov 08

Re xcraxycx - the police force is NOT full of corruption. Sure there may have been isolated incidents in the past but to to suggest that everyone in TVP is corrupt smacks of paranoia. If the police have decided not to release details yet they will have a good reason for doing so. Let them get on with their job and I'm sure details will be revealed when appropriate. TVP have already stated that due to the man's family being abroad, they are waiting to inform them, before they go public. As far as I can see that is not a conspiracy, more a matter of respect.

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family member, high wycombe says...
1:45pm Sat 22 Nov 08

stop stop stop. as a family member i am disgusted by the comments i have seen on here i do not wish to see any more speculation slander or raci issues discussed this is a mans life not a football result but a life stop all your comments his mother has not been notified have some damm respect all of you

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